Hello Paul

It was very good to hear from you. My wife, Jan, and I were very interested in the information you included in your message, as we knew nothing about the life of Daniel Wilby Sayer, or, indeed, Bernard William Sayer.

The Sayers are Jan’s ancestors. Her grandmother was Gladys Amy Jessavina Sayer (1892 – 1978). Jan’s Sayer line comes down from Manning Sayer (c1806-1866), who was a brother of Daniel Wilby Sayer, her direct male Sayer forebears from that point being:

Manning Sayer (c1806-1866)
Samuel John Sayer (1833-1909)
Bernard (Barney) Sayer (1865-1933)

We shall be happy to add the information you sent us to our records, and if you would like any information from us please let me know and we will try to help you. It would probably be best if you contact me via one of the links on the Geoffs Genealogy website, and I’ll reply using my email address.

Yes, sadly it is true that there are a lot of gaps in the dates on our Sayer tree. A work in progress, to be sure. We need to address that sometime. Hopefully before too long.

All the best

Geoff

I live in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.

I came across your page on Daniel Wilby Sayer today. I had never bothered looking him up previously because he is not my direct ancestor. I knew about him, though, because his name appears in the UK censuses.

I am descended from his younger brother, Benjamin William Sayer, who seems to have migrated to Australia (most likely Victoria) in the 1860s. Like his father, he was a miller, although he was later a “hotel keeper” in Melbourne. He was married twice, had only one child, William Samuel Sayer, who served in the Boer War and was killed at Messenes in 1918. In that regard, William is mentioned in Australia’s Official History of World War I. William had three children and quite a number of descendants. I myself am one of his grandsons, the eldest of eight.

While looking at your site, I noted that you had a number of blank dates for the early period. I long ago obtained baptismal and marriage certificates for Daniel, his brother and their parents.

Paul Sayer

Colin Hose

Hello Colin. Thanks for your comment, which raises some interesting questions.
If you look at the Joseph & Mary Collyer Sources section of my website you will see an image of Joseph Collyer the Elder’s Freedom record, dated 1725. Among the signatories as witnesses was John Hole, Cordwainer. This is seven years before the marriage you refer to, but it certainly suggests that the Elizabeth Collyer who John Hole married was a member of Joseph the Elder’s family. The question is, where did she fit in?
My daughter, Helen, went to Nottingham some years ago, to research the Collyers. She saw the non conformist register containing the births of Joseph the Elder and his siblings. They were: John (b c1710, Nottm), Jeremiah (b abt 1718, Nottm), Eliezer (b abt 1721, Nottm). John was a Stationer, active in London and Nottingham, and wrote a Grammar book. Incidentally, Joseph the Elder was born c1714 in Nottingham. The parents of Joseph and his siblings were John Collyer & Alice Tingey, who were married in London in 1700. As there is a big gap between the date of their marriage and the birthdate of their first known child (1710), it is quite possible that there were some children born to them before 1710, possibly in London, and one of these could be Elizabeth. Alternatively, as you mention, Elizabeth could have been a cousin to Joseph. I have seen a transcription of the 1731 Hole / Collyer marriage marriage at St Peter, Nottingham on Family Search, but there is no mention of parentage. Also, there was a marriage licence, seemingly granted in Nottingham. A transcription of this is on Find My Past website, but again, no mention of parents. We could really do with seeing the original marriage entry in the St Peters Nottingham register, and the original marriage licence documentation. It’s quite likely that that will still leave us wondering, but that is the place to start, I think. Not sure when I may be able to do this, as Nottingham isn’t local to me, but I’ll give it some thought.
I’d be interested to know what sources you have already looked at re this research. Do you have any Hole family wills, for instance, and if so do they name Collyers?
I’m thinking that if you are willing, it would be interesting for us to work together on this. If this appeals to you maybe we could correspond be email. You can send me an email by using one of the links on Geoffs Genealogy.
Once again, thanks very much for a very interesting message.
Geoff